[SystemSafety] [EC 61508 and cybersecurity

[RICQUE Bertrand (SAGEM DEFENSE SECURITE)]

In the existing IEC 61508 there is a clear trend to focus on dedicated safety systems and functions. But the standard addresses also (often by default, but never excluding them) systems and functions where it is not possible to differentiate safety functions and system from control system, let’s call them “critical systems”.

It is a natural evolution for IEC 61508 (planned to be discussed for edition 3) to better take into account critical systems and their characteristics.

This will have an impact on associated security.

Bertrand Ricque
Program Manager
Optronics and Defence Division
Sights Program
Mob : +33 6 87 47 84 64
Tel : +33 1 58 11 96 82
Bertrand.ricque at sagem.com

From: systemsafety-bounces at lists.techfak.uni-bielefeld.de [mailto:systemsafety-bounces at lists.techfak.uni-bielefeld.de] On Behalf Of Rolle, Ingo
Sent: Monday, June 01, 2015 2:19 PM
To: systemsafety at lists.techfak.uni-bielefeld.de
Subject: Re: [SystemSafety] [EC 61508 and cybersecurity

Since I’m secretary of the German mirror groups in charge of IEC 61508 and IEC 62443 I was asked to give a brief overview of principal differences between functional safety and IT security. I gave the following presentation before the TC 65 audience last year. The conclusion (i.e. my opinion) was that there are many principal differences, although some things may be coordinated. I tried to work through an example of a life-cycle considering both f.s. and IT security

The difference starts with the requirement that also non-safety functions must be protected against eavesdropping or data manipulation.

An overview of IEC 62443 may be here, although only in German: www.vde.com/62443<http://www.vde.com/62443>

I’m not aware of the difference between IT security and cyber security, perhaps somebody could tell me

Ingo Rolle (ingo.Rolle at vde.com<mailto:ingo.Rolle at vde.com>)

Von: systemsafety-bounces at lists.techfak.uni-bielefeld.de<mailto:systemsafety-bounces at lists.techfak.uni-bielefeld.de> [mailto:systemsafety-bounces at lists.techfak.uni-bielefeld.de] Im Auftrag von Andy Ashworth
Gesendet: Montag, 1. Juni 2015 13:27
An: RICQUE Bertrand (SAGEM DEFENSE SECURITE)
Cc: systemsafety at lists.techfak.uni-bielefeld.de<mailto:systemsafety at lists.techfak.uni-bielefeld.de>
Betreff: Re: [SystemSafety] [EC 61508 and cybersecurity

I have previously held the position of safety assurance manager at a nuclear research laboratory. While my team was required to demonstrate that the consequences of any credible accident would not be unacceptable, my colleagues in the security team regarded our analysis as a security threat since we were identifying potential worst scenarios for any deliberate attack.

There is definitely a contradiction between safety and security I terms of openness - for safety we want to be seen to be safe, but he security world requires us to hide the specific vulnerabilities of our systems.

Andy

Sent from Andy's iPad

On Jun 1, 2015, at 07:06, RICQUE Bertrand (SAGEM DEFENSE SECURITE) <bertrand.ricque at sagem.com<mailto:bertrand.ricque at sagem.com>> wrote:
It is not that simple.

Safety is a roughly 2D problem ( probability x consequence), the two dimensions being usually stable along the unique system timescale.

Security is a 3D problem with sub dimensions (attacker(motivation, capability), vulnerability(inherent, introduced), consequence), these dimensions being variable along two different timescales (target system timescale, attacker timescale).

Bertrand Ricque
Program Manager
Optronics and Defence Division
Sights Program
Mob : +33 6 87 47 84 64
Tel : +33 1 58 11 96 82
Bertrand.ricque at sagem.com<mailto:Bertrand.ricque at sagem.com>

From: systemsafety-bounces at lists.techfak.uni-bielefeld.de<mailto:systemsafety-bounces at lists.techfak.uni-bielefeld.de> [mailto:systemsafety-bounces at lists.techfak.uni-bielefeld.de] On Behalf Of Chris Hills
Sent: Monday, June 01, 2015 12:50 PM
To: martyn at thomas-associates.co.uk<mailto:martyn at thomas-associates.co.uk>; systemsafety at lists.techfak.uni-bielefeld.de<mailto:systemsafety at lists.techfak.uni-bielefeld.de>
Subject: Re: [SystemSafety] [EC 61508 and cybersecurity

I have always though that safety and security are two sides of the same coin.  Often it is just a difference of emphasis or wording  but the requirements are very similar if not the same.
The trouble is “cyber security” is the new buzzword so we need a standard for it…..    Surely it is better build on 61508 for something that is both safe and secure?

Or do you want something that is secure but unsafe?  ☺

Regards
   Chris


Phaedrus Systems Ltd Tel:   FREEphone 0808 1800 358
96 Brambling B77 5PG          Vat GB860621831  Co Reg #04120771
Http://www.phaedsys.com<http://www.phaedsys.com/>  chills at phaedsys.com<mailto:chills at phaedsys.com>


From: systemsafety-bounces at lists.techfak.uni-bielefeld.de<mailto:systemsafety-bounces at lists.techfak.uni-bielefeld.de> [mailto:systemsafety-bounces at lists.techfak.uni-bielefeld.de] On Behalf Of Martyn Thomas
Sent: 01 June 2015 10:09
To: systemsafety at lists.techfak.uni-bielefeld.de<mailto:systemsafety at lists.techfak.uni-bielefeld.de>
Subject: Re: [SystemSafety] [EC 61508 and cybersecurity

Where can I find details of the content of IEC 62443, and of the IEC workgroup?

Martyn



On 01/06/2015 09:42, RICQUE Bertrand (SAGEM DEFENSE SECURITE) wrote:
There is currently an IEC workgroup on what to do with IEC 61508 and cybersecurity (IEC 62443). The topic is thus not ignored.


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