[SystemSafety] SKODA Crash in the UK - Cruise Control Stuck On

Sat Nov 26 22:23:13 CET 2016

Thanks for the additional comments, very useful especially concerning 
the Osprey incident.

My only real response is that there is an assumption that people read 
manuals! I know I haven’t read the manual of my current car!

In fact the only time I have read car manuals recently in the last 5 
years is to find the petrol cap release on my hire car in the US (hidden 
in the driver arm rest on the door) this week, the other time was to 
work out how to start a car with ‘Start/Stop’ button because despite 
pushing the button in, I had to have the foot on the brake pedal for it 
to activate.

Regards

Gareth Lock
Owner, Trainer and Coach
Human in the System Consulting

M: +44 7966 483832
E: gareth at humaninthesystem.co.uk
W: http://www.humaninthesystem.co.uk
T: @HumaninSystem

Skype: gloc_1002
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On 26 Nov 2016, at 12:11, Mike Ellims wrote:

> I did a bit more digging on this one but I can’t find a transcript 
> of the
> coroners hearing so some of the details are unclear.
>
>
>
> An article in the Telegraph to the effect that it should have been 
> possible
> to shift from 6th to neutral even without pressing the clutch. The
> implication of is that the vehicle had a manual transmission so 
> pushing the
> clutch in will disconnect the engine from the drive wheels as would 
> putting
> the vehicle in neutral.
>
>
>
> In addition this is a German car (basically it’s a VW Golf in drag) 
> so the
> E-Gas concept would have been part of the ECU, so in theory if the 
> brake
> pedal had be pressed then the engine should have gone to idle. Note 
> E-gas
> has been around since the problems with unintentional acceleration in 
> the
> Audi 5000 in the 1980’s
>
>
>
> This is nominally a closed standard but I found (actually Google found
> it...) a copy on-line at
> https://www.iav.com/sites/default/files/attachments/seite/ak-egas-v5-5-en-
> 130705.pdf
>
>
>
> Gareth Lock commented: “What is interesting is that the Start/Stop 
> button
> failed to have an effect”.
>
> There are a number of issues with stop/start buttons.
>
> 1.       Some are (or at least were) asymmetric in the operation i.e. 
> press
> for ½ second to start and 1 or more seconds to stop...
>
> 2.       Start/stop button has to be held - this was noted as being an
> issue in the crash with the Osprey tilt rotor reset button - the pilot
> never held the button in.
>
> 3.       So it’s possible that even if the button was “pressed” 
> it
> wasn’t held
>
>
>
> The Octavia user manual offers the following information on its KESSY 
> system
>
>
>
> WARNING
>
> ■ Never switch off the ignition while driving, as the power steering 
> and
> brake booster will no longer operate - risk of accident!
>
> ■ Never leave the keys in the vehicle, if leaving children 
> unattended in
> the vehicle. Otherwise the children could start the engine - risk of
> accident!
>
>
>
> And:
>
>
>
> In an emergency, it is possible to switch off the ignition even at 
> speeds
> greater than 2 km/h, by using the "emergency ignition shutoff system".
> Press the starter button for longer than 1 second or twice within 1 
> second.
>
>
>
>
>
> From: systemsafety 
> [mailto:systemsafety-bounces at lists.techfak.uni-bielefeld.
> de] On Behalf Of Martyn Thomas
> Sent: 26 November 2016 10:34
> To: systemsafety at lists.techfak.uni-bielefeld.de
> Subject: Re: [SystemSafety] SKODA Crash in the UK - Cruise Control 
> Stuck On
>
>
>
> And here's the Guardian link, with the expert evidence saying that the 
> last
> 5 seconds showed no problems.
>
> https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/nov/24/skoda-driver-decapitated-
> in-stuck-cruise-control-mystery
>
> The Bookout v Toyota Barr expert evidence [available online] provides 
> an
> interesting background.
>
> Martyn
>
>
> On 25/11/2016 23:53, Gareth Lock wrote:
>
> This link below to a news article regarding a crash involving a Skoda 
> that
> sped along a motorway at 119mph after it's cruise control "got stuck",
> resulting in the car hitting a parked lorry, killing the driver 
> instantly
> was sent to me today. I am sure there is more to it given that the 
> report
> is from the Daily Mail, but this is likely to have implications for 
> other
> manufacturers and the autonomous cars out there. What is interesting 
> is
> that the Start/Stop button failed to have an effect.
>
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3968218/Terrified-driver-32-called-
> 999-control-Skoda-sped-motorway-119mph-cruise-control-stuck-crashed-
> lorry.html
>
> Regards
>
> Gareth Lock
>
>
>
>
>
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