[SystemSafety] Spanish train crash

[peter.sheppard at uk.transport.bombardier.com]

So, Greyrigg doesn't count because only one person was killed?

In the UK, the RAIB has ultimate authority on a railway incident site 
(regardless if there were fatalities or not). A significant problem in the 
past has been railway accident inspectors prevented access by the police 
as they have declared it a "crime scene".  This has meant that key 
readings (e.g. brake pressure) could not be taken promptly and all the 
pressure had leaked away by the time they did get access!  Thus key 
evidence was missed.

The RAIB reports are very thorough and worthy of a read.

Cheers

Peter



Peter Sheppard
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Dick Selwood <dick at ntcom.co.uk>
Sent by: systemsafety-bounces at lists.techfak.uni-bielefeld.de
29/07/2013 15:03

Please respond to
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Subject
Re: [SystemSafety] Spanish train crash







Chris' posting crossed with mine

But it is worth remembering that the media are often rely on "guidance" in 
what to write, and it is just possible that there might be interested 
parties talking to the press for whom blaming the driver is a very useful 
way to hide the infrastructure weakness 

ON PBLs point here about "Crime scene", there has been a tendency, 
especially in the immediate post-privitisation period, to treat rail 
accident sites in Britain as crime scenes, closing the railway for several 
days, while the priority for a road traffic accident seems the opposite - 
to get the scene recorded and cleared to get the traffic running as soon 
as possible. There was pressure to change the rail approach, but whether 
this was successful is difficult to say - as fortunately there has not 
been a major accident on Britain's railways since Potters Bar in 2004

d

On 29/07/2013 13:54, Peter Bernard Ladkin wrote:
On 7/29/13 1:40 PM, Chris Dale wrote: 
The (seemingly) media-led frenzy to find someone to blame is an obstacle 
to 
the prevention of future accidents. 

Yes, but that word "seemingly" is important. I would say rather than it is 
enjoined by the legal system. In Germany, France and Spain, as well as 
some other countries, the legal system is required to ascertain if any 
crime has been committed and has priority in impounding evidence. The 
British investigators involved in the Concorde Paris crash complained 
publicly about how their work was hindered. 

This has been perceived to hinder the technical investigation of aviation 
accidents so much that in 2006 (or was it 2007?) the Flight Safety 
Foundation, the U.K. Royal Aeronautical Society, the French Academie 
Nationale de l'Air and the Civil Air Navigation Services Organisation 
issued a joint statement deploring the "criminalisation" of air accident 
investigations and listing the disadvantages (see Slide 31 of 
http://www.rvs.uni-bielefeld.de/Bieleschweig/ninth/LadkinB9Slides.pdf , 
which also includes examples from Taiwan, Brazil and Switzerland). 

PBL 

Prof. Peter Bernard Ladkin, Faculty of Technology, University of 
Bielefeld, 33594 Bielefeld, Germany 
Tel+msg +49 (0)521 880 7319  www.rvs.uni-bielefeld.de 




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