[SystemSafety] Does "reliable" mean "safe" and or "secure" or neither?

Wed Apr 20 17:54:59 CEST 2016

1. adherence to moral principles; honesty
2. the quality of being unimpaired; soundness
3. unity; wholeness

Webster :
1    :  firm adherence to a code of especially moral or artistic values :  incorruptibility
2    :  an unimpaired condition :  soundness
3    :  the quality or state of being complete or undivided :  completeness

I understand that in technological field what we mean by "integrity" in engineering is both definitions 2 and 3.

Bertrand Ricque
Program Manager
Optronics and Defence Division
Sights Program
Mob : +33 6 87 47 84 64
Tel : +33 1 58 11 96 82
Bertrand.ricque at sagem.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Ashworth [mailto:andy at the-ashworths.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2016 5:48 PM
To: 'Christopher Johnson'; RICQUE Bertrand (SAGEM DEFENSE SECURITE); 'Peter Bernard Ladkin'; systemsafety at lists.techfak.uni-bielefeld.de
Subject: RE: [SystemSafety] Does "reliable" mean "safe" and or "secure" or neither?

If Integrity is interpreted as applying to a system's ability to perform in accordance with the designer's intent, rather than focusing on data integrity, then the security definition works. 

In my mind I further characterise security as measures to thwart a deliberate attack, while dependability usually considers random effects that can affect a system's behaviour and as such the two concepts are complementary.

Andy Ashworth, P.Eng
System Safety Certifier
OLRT Constructors/Constructeurs
Confederation Line
1600 Carling Ave. Ottawa, Ontario
Suite 450, PO Box 20, K1Z 1G3

Office: 613.916.6706
Cell: 613.314.6404
Email: andy.ashworth at ottawa-lrt.com

-----Original Message-----
From: systemsafety
[mailto:systemsafety-bounces at lists.techfak.uni-bielefeld.de] On Behalf Of Christopher Johnson
Sent: April-20-16 11:03 AM
To: RICQUE Bertrand (SAGEM DEFENSE SECURITE) <bertrand.ricque at sagem.com>; Peter Bernard Ladkin <ladkin at rvs.uni-bielefeld.de>; systemsafety at lists.techfak.uni-bielefeld.de
Subject: Re: [SystemSafety] Does "reliable" mean "safe" and or "secure" or neither?

I dont think this is appropriate any more.

Security here seems to imply conventional IT systems - most of the breaches I work on in safety related SCADA/ICS applications focus on the consequent loss of control which is not characterised either by concerns over data integrity or confidentiality.
________________________________________
From: systemsafety [systemsafety-bounces at lists.techfak.uni-bielefeld.de] on behalf of RICQUE Bertrand (SAGEM DEFENSE SECURITE) [bertrand.ricque at sagem.com]
Sent: 20 April 2016 15:23
To: Peter Bernard Ladkin; systemsafety at lists.techfak.uni-bielefeld.de
Subject: Re: [SystemSafety] Does "reliable" mean "safe" and or "secure" or neither?

I would stick to the Laprie taxonomy :

Dependability =  Availability + Reliability + Safety + Integrity(not the SIL one, the true one) + Maintainability Security = Integrity + Confidentiality

Bertrand Ricque
Program Manager
Optronics and Defence Division
Sights Program
Mob : +33 6 87 47 84 64
Tel : +33 1 58 11 96 82
Bertrand.ricque at sagem.com

-----Original Message-----
From: systemsafety
[mailto:systemsafety-bounces at lists.techfak.uni-bielefeld.de] On Behalf Of Peter Bernard Ladkin
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 8:21 PM
To: systemsafety at lists.techfak.uni-bielefeld.de
Subject: Re: [SystemSafety] Does "reliable" mean "safe" and or "secure" or neither?

On 2016-04-18 18:25 , Chris Hills wrote:
> What is the current thinking?   Does "reliable" also infer safe or secure?

The system consists of the following.

You, tied up in a chair, fixed to the floor. Along with your nemesis, with a rifle, who is pointing it at you, and is an excellent shot, and intends to shoot. Heshe pulls the trigger.

If the rifle is reliable, the system is unsafe.

If the rifle is completely unreliable, the system is safe.

PBL
Prof. Peter Bernard Ladkin, Faculty of Technology, University of Bielefeld,
33594 Bielefeld, Germany Je suis Charlie
Tel+msg +49 (0)521 880 7319  www.rvs.uni-bielefeld.de

#
" Ce courriel et les documents qui lui sont joints peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles, être soumis aux règlementations relatives au contrôle des exportations ou ayant un caractère privé. S'ils ne vous sont pas destinés, nous vous signalons qu'il est strictement interdit de les divulguer, de les reproduire ou d'en utiliser de quelque manière que ce soit le contenu. Toute exportation ou réexportation non autorisée est interdite Si ce message vous a été transmis par erreur, merci d'en informer l'expéditeur et de supprimer immédiatement de votre système informatique ce courriel ainsi que tous les documents qui y sont attachés."
******
" This e-mail and any attached documents may contain confidential or proprietary information and may be subject to export control laws and regulations. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that any dissemination, copying of this e-mail and any attachments thereto or use of their contents by any means whatsoever is strictly prohibited.
Unauthorized export or re-export is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please advise the sender immediately and delete this e-mail and all attached documents from your computer system."
#

_______________________________________________
The System Safety Mailing List
systemsafety at TechFak.Uni-Bielefeld.DE
_______________________________________________
The System Safety Mailing List
systemsafety at TechFak.Uni-Bielefeld.DE

#
" Ce courriel et les documents qui lui sont joints peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles, être soumis aux règlementations relatives au contrôle des exportations ou ayant un caractère privé. S'ils ne vous sont pas destinés, nous vous signalons qu'il est strictement interdit de les divulguer, de les reproduire ou d'en utiliser de quelque manière que ce soit le contenu. Toute exportation ou réexportation non autorisée est interdite Si ce message vous a été transmis par erreur, merci d'en informer l'expéditeur et de supprimer immédiatement de votre système informatique ce courriel ainsi que tous les documents qui y sont attachés."
******
" This e-mail and any attached documents may contain confidential or proprietary information and may be subject to export control laws and regulations. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that any dissemination, copying of this e-mail and any attachments thereto or use of their contents by any means whatsoever is strictly prohibited. Unauthorized export or re-export is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please advise the sender immediately and delete this e-mail and all attached documents from your computer system."
#